If we happen to run into each other.. please don’t sit next to me.
And it’s these things I’d believe in, even if the whole world indulged in wild suspicions that she wasn’t all she should be. I love her and it is the beginning of everything.
― F. Scott Fitzgerald
Sansa is not courageous in the least. If she was courageous she would have stood up for her sister, stood up for her father, she would have gone down fighting and not have resigned herself to be joffery’s plaything. IMHO she is the least stark of the children. She is a traitor to her family. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
Excuse me, but no. To everything. I mean, I respect your opinion, but you are wrong. So wrong.
- She is very brave. Surviving needs bravery. She’s all alone in King’s Landing, she needs to survive on her own. She doesn’t have friends, and she doesn’t know who to trust, who she can trust. So she relies on herself. She tries to be brave all the time, her chapters are full with her talking about gathering her courage.
- Sansa couldn’t have stood up for her sister (whatever that means for you), Arya hit Joffrey in the head, she did commit the crime. She said she doesn’t remember, and Robert went with the answer, leaving the incident behind. But anyway, Sansa was engaged to Joffrey, she couldn’t have said anything against him. Also, you insult Sansa for it, but please, don’t forget, that Ned also knew what happened, since Sansa told him before exactly, but yet Ned kept silent. Why aren’t you angry at him for not telling Robert, or ordering Sansa to tell the truth, when he knew what happened and that she remembered? Because it wasn’t smart, that’s why. It wasn’t about courage, it was about consequenses.
- She did stood up for her father, she begged for Joffrey for his life. What else do you want from an 11 years old child?
- "not have resigned herself to be joffery’s plaything" - I’m sorry, but what? Do you think she wanted that? Do you think she enjoyed it? In what world…..? She didn’t want to be Joffrey’s anything. She wanted to go home, to leave him behind. She hates Joffrey after her father’s excecution. She hates all the Lannisters. I can’t see how’s that not clear. Also, like in AGoT/s1 she wanted to push him down of the bridge or what was it, but the Hound stopped her. How is that for resigning?
- "she is the least stark of the children" - I really don’t know why is this a thing often said by Sansa haters, but I find it stupid. She is just as much as a Stark as any of them. She gatheres strenght form the thought of her family, of Winterfell, of her siblings (even Arya, who she didn’t stood up for). The thought of family and home keeps her going. She even thinks about her dead direwolf, Lady many times, and it gives her strenght and courage. She is just as much of a Stark as any other Stark.
- "She is a traitor to her family." - NO. She is not. She’s an 11 years old girl, who didn’t want to loose the boy who she liked for no reason. Because Ned didn’t give her any reason why she should just pack and leave. She wanted to stay. So she went to Cersei (to someone who was kind to her) and complained to her. How could she have known that it’s gonna lead to terrible things? No one told her. She didn’t have any reason to suspect that Cersei is not trustable. That doesn’t make her a traitor. That only makes her young and innocent, and a victim. Think about that.
- "The lone wolf dies but the pack survives." - A great quote, but untrue. Arya is also alone, but lives. Bran is also alone, but lives. Rickon is alone but lives. Sansa is alone but lives. Robb wasn’t alone but died. Think about this one too.
Also, because this was under a gifset of Sansa and Tyrion I’d like to add as a sidenote, that Tyrion is aware of everything I just said above. Tyrion respects Sansa for being brave, for being a surviver. I say this every time, but Tyrion Lannister adores Sansa more than any Sansa fan, trust me.
Also another thing (adding onto alayneestone’s points), hi-ghlife
'Wolves are supposed to be brave aren't they?' Brave, Sansa took a deep breath. I am a Stark. Yes, I can be brave. (ASOS)
Be brave, she told herself. Be brave like a lady in a song.
I must be brave. Her torments would soon be ended, one way or the other. If Lady was here, I would not be afraid. Lady was dead, though; Robb, Bran, Rickon, Arya, her father, her mother, even Septa Mordane. All of them are dead but me. She was alone in the world now.
For someone thrust into such circumstances, Sansa is extraordinarily brave and courageous. Sansa couldn’t actually do anything in King’s Landing, she is a hostage, she has no agency, and she never has even up until this point in AFFC. Placing the blame and hate on the victim instead of the abusers is never, ever OK, and literally everyone who does so is gross and allowing a guilt-free trip to every single real life abuser (which includes rapists, pedophiles, etc. how does it feel to defend those kinds of people?)
And least Stark? There’s at least three metas out there (that I can’t find atm) that discuss exactly how ludicrous the notion of assigning qualities to each house is. Considering Ned was raised an Arryn and Catelyn was raised, well, a Tully, how exactly do you define Stark?
You do have valid points, however, the choices she made forced her into those situations. Arya acted in defence of the butcher’s boy and was COMPLETELY justified in her actions against Joffrey. If Sansa had told the truth Lady would still be alive. Please inform me of where in the books Sansa told Eddard the truth. As far as I read and remember (my memory may not be the best, so please, if im wrong correct me) Sansa took that secret with her to the Vale. When it came to standing up for her father, I’m sorry, I used the wrong terminology. I was supposed to say she did not stand by her father. Yes she begged for his life, but she was the one who ratted her own father out to Cersei in the first place. That is a traitorous act. She had the chance to kill Joffrey, to push him off a ledge, but she didnt and even though the Hound came between them, not to stop her mind you, but to dab some blood off of her lip, she had the chance, fleeting as it may have been and she didnt react. Arya would have done it, Jon would have done it, any of the other kids would have killed Joffrey or at least been plotting and waiting for a chance to kill him and accepted that they would die in the aftermath, knowing that they did the right thing. Where it comes to her “starkness”, you cannot deny that she isn’t as wild as the others, she doesn’t think the same way when it comes to honor before all else. She’s different, and its not a bad thing I guess but shes more southron than a northerner. She is. What I would like to see from her in the next book is some fire. She now does have the opportunity to prove herself in my eyes and in the eyes of many people who dont see her as you do. I personally think she will take winterfell or bring the Vale to kings landing in time to do something big. And when it comes to that quote, Rob didnt heed his mothers warning. His mother warned him and he disobeyed. Arya was always trying to reunite with Jon, Her mother, anyone of her family that was her goal. Jon, the minute he heard rob was in trouble he took his horse and was going to leave the nights watch to fight by robs side. Bran was with rickon, but sent rickon away for his own safety. Once again thinking about his brothers well being. Sansa wasnt hatching escape plots, she wasnt watching to see a slip up and try to run. she just stayed and waited. But all things aside, i love these kind of debates and you have moved me. I like sansa a lil better now in light of those points you made, maybe we can discuss GoT some more later? Im sorry if i Tee’d you off at all, I didnt mean to come across as rude. But yh, Im waiting with baited breath to see what sansa’s going to do with her newfound power. Cheers :) alayneestone
First, you weren’t rude :) I’ve seen many people in my time who made rude comments, yours was only an opinion, that I found full with reading mistakes. (I don’t know how else can I say this)
Sansa is a very complex character, and many people see her making mistakes where she is actually doing her only choice. Okay, I’m gonna react to your points now:
- "If Sansa had told the truth Lady would still be alive." - I can’t say you are wrong, since I don’t know what would have happened if Sansa says the truth. But I can assure you, the truth would have cost Arya much more. She attacked Joffrey, who was the heir to the throne. She (and Nymeria) could have killed him, and that’s murder, and what Arya did could have lead up to unintentional murder. Cersei wouldn’t have heard that Arya wanted to protect her friend, she would have heard that Arya almost killed intentionally her precious son. And Robert would have given in. The cost would have been so much higher than Lady’s life.
- Okay, Ned knowing about the truth: ““They were not the only ones present,” Ned said. “Sansa, come here.” Ned had heard her version of the story the night Arya had vanished. He knew the truth. “Tell us what happened.”" It’s maybe only me, but this passage always confused me. Ned knew that Sansa can’t take Arya’s side in this, since Joffrey is also involved, yet he says "Tell us what happened", but when Sansa says ‘I don’t know’… Could have been Ned who told her to say that? I don’t know, but it crossed my mind before. (This way she doesn’t lie, but she doesn’t take sides. It’s a perfect answer).
- "Yes she begged for his life, but she was the one who ratted her own father out to Cersei in the first place. That is a traitorous act." - I can only say what I said before, she had no knowledge of Cersei being her enemy, so I don’t see it as treachery. You could say it’s a mistake, a slip, but I wouldn’t call it treachery. Like… if your dad is mean to you, and you go to your boyfriends mom who you love and respect and cry to her, then you betray your father? No. She was hurt, so she searched for comfort and for someone who has enough power and influence to make her father stay. I don’t see it as treachery.
- Okay, so killing Joffrey is not the solution. Joffrey was a mean little prick, and he was king, yes, but killing him wasn’t the answer. If she would have killed him she would have died. You’d like her then….? The problem is not Joffrey. He doesn’t hold the cards. Tywin, Cersei, Tyrion….they do (or did at some point). The only thing Joffrey did was to excecute Ned, but everything else he did was to torment Sansa and fuck shit up in King’s Landing. Sansa wanted Robb to come and save her. The Hound brought her back from that murderous moment, and I’m glad it did. Sansa isn’t a killer. She is kind, and gentle and has a good heart. Those qualities lack from almost everyone else in the series, because they are made to forget them, all the horrors destroy the kindness. Not in Sansa. No matter what happens to her, she stays like that, and it’s admirable, if you ask me. I hope she’ll never loses hope and faith and kindness. Because it’s beautiful in a world where all of that are missing.
- "Where it comes to her “starkness”, you cannot deny that she isn’t as wild as the others, she doesn’t think the same way when it comes to honor before all else." - A gentle wolf is also a wolf ^^. But….no, I’m not denying any of these. She isn’t wild, she’s calm and she can hide all her emotions. A quality she needed to stay alive. No wait, a quality that helps her win the game. See, Sansa is a player. No one else from the Starks are as good as a player as Sansa. Arya doesn’t play, Bran and Rickon doesn’t even have a chance, they don’t even know what that is, I think. Robb sucked in it just like Ned, because honor was in the way. Jon…? I’d say he isn’t a good player either. He’s a good warrior, a fantastic character, but when it comes to court and plans and seeing through people, then Sansa is the best. And she hides behind courtesies and faked smiles and innocence. And she’s learned from the bests (Cersei, Tyrion, Petyr…), people who are in the game but at some point they flip (I’m sure Petyr flipped when he started to get close with Sansa, it just needs time), and Sansa won’t. I’m sure of it. Her whole arc is built up so she can be the player. She’s meant to be a player. She doesn’t take the field like her siblings do. Her battle field is much more different, but just as dangerous.
I think I reacted to all the main points. I’m glad you see her in a bit of a different light, believe it or not, it’s my goal since the beginning. :)
Jamie Fraser in season one, episode four → “The Gathering”
3 Movies - 3. The Little Mermaid (1989)
"Lydia, your Hair," he said in a hushed tone the second he leaned down to greet the mourning girl. "It’s red and impossible." The statement shook her. Reminded her of why she was crying. Of who she’d lost. Of the only other person to tell her this fact. When she looked up she saw it. His bright green eyes. A world of color.This can’t be possible. She thought. He can’t be my soulmate. He’s a cop.Marrish AU: The world is black and white until you meet your soulmate. Lydia and Parrish meet after Allison dies.